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Tune in to hear as Josh talks to Michael Zhuang about Physician finance and learn:
- Hurdles physicians face when it comes to getting rich.
- Process for wealth management.
- How to find a financial adviser that truly has your best interests in mind.
Josh Mettle: Previous to our current times, it seems like many of the physicians were private practice.
Michael Zhuang: Yes.
Josh Mettle: Could build, up over a career, a business that could be sold. And you know as well as I do, in terms of a tax perspective, that there was more sheltering of income and less tax burden as private practice. So if I worked for 40 years building my medical practice, and I paid less taxes, even five or 10% less taxes, I probably owned my building that my office was in and had depreciation and tax deductions for that. And at the end of a 40 year private practice, I owned a building that was free and clear, I had a bunch of doctors around me that were creating income, and I had something that I could sell.
So I was as much an entrepreneur and business owner as I was a practitioner. And now that trend, correct me if you think I’m wrong, please, but that trend seems to be towards health management groups and large hospital networks that are as you say, paperwork to the Nth degree, W2 tax rates the highest in the country, and it just isn’t a wealth building strategy anymore.
Michael Zhuang: Yes, it’s a lot harder for physicians to make significant money. That actually puts extra burden on them to take better care of whatever money they own.
Josh Mettle: Hello, and welcome to the Physician Financial Success podcast. My name is Josh Mettle, and this is the podcast dedicated to advising physicians how to avoid financial landmines. Today, we’ll be talking with Michael Zhuang, founder and principal of MZ Capital. Michael is also the author of the best selling Amazon book, titled “Physician Wealth Management Made Easy, How to Build or Protect Your Wealth in Uncertain Times”. And I want to dig in before we wrap up this podcast with Michael about uncertain times that may be just around the corner. So we’ll come back to that, but Michael, first of all, thank you for coming and spending some time with our listeners. How are you today?
Michael Zhuang: I’m good. It’s nice meeting you, Josh.
Josh Mettle: Likewise. I thought your biography and your background was interesting. I understand that you speak, you write, you advise clients, and did I see something in there about doing some stand-up comedy?
Michael Zhuang: Yes, you’re right. I do stand-up and I do improvised musical as well.
Josh Mettle: All right, well, I expect to laugh more in this podcast than any podcast I’ve done before.
Okay, very good. All right, hey, let’s just kick off. I mean, you’ve got a diverse background, but bring us up to speed. Tell us a little bit about your background, and then how did you begin serving physician families?
Michael Zhuang: Okay, I basically got over educated in financial stuff. I was in the PSE program in Carnegie Mellon studying financial economics. Fast forward a few years, I was running my own hedge fund in Florida. And I became this illusion about the feel, of the hedge fund feel, basically. I saw a lot of unethical behaviors in this very unregulated world of finance. And I became skeptical about my career choice. At the time, I got a phone call from my own family doctor. And he said, “Hey, Michael, I can’t be your doctor anymore.” I said, “What? What’s going on, doc?” I was already low in morale, and then my doc called to fire me. So it was pretty bad.
It turned out that my doctor was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. He basically called me to transfer me to another doctor. At the end he told me that, “Michael, you’re the only finance guy I know. Can you come help us because my family is totally not prepared for this?” I was a hedge fund manager. I wasn’t supposed to help people, but how can you say no to your doctor who is basically asking for help?
And I’m in his house sitting down with his wife and childrens and just basically have them prepare, gather all the paperwork and things like that. And three months later, he passed away. I stayed on board to help his wife and two childrens making the necessary adjustment to their new and reduced reality. And they were very grateful. They thanked me. His wife just one day grabbed my hand and said, “Michael, I don’t know how much I can thank you, because without you I wouldn’t have been able to handle all of this.” And that was the moment I feel very rewarded. I feel my work has meaning, finally, for the first time actually, that my work had other meaning. So I convert my hedge fund MZ capital into a wealth management firm, focusing on serving physicians.
Josh Mettle: That is a great story, Michael. That is good. You know, in my other life, when I don’t have a microphone in my face here, we do mortgages. We do mortgages for physicians. And we started out as just a really small town, Salt Lake City, helping a couple doctors at the University of Utah. And there was a similar story, thankfully no death involved. But there was a young family headed across the country, and he was headed into residency, just finishing medical school, literally in the U-Haul bus with his family. And he was headed to Utah to close on a home, move in over the weekend, and then his orientation started the next week.
And you know, 80 hour schedules. And in the U-Haul van, he gets a call from his loan officer. And the loan officer informs him, “Hey, I’m sorry, I miscalculated your debt to income ratios because I didn’t account for your student loans.” And of course, the underwriter didn’t make the same mistake. And the day before closing, your loan is declined, you have no home and nowhere to put your family. And the despair in that young man’s voice, he’s just grappling with reality at that moment and what to do with his family.
And that was the catalyst for us to decide, “Okay, we have to go to other states. If this is how physicians are being treated, then we need to be part of that solution.” And I was very fearful. And I’m sure you might have been fearful at that moment to move from hedge fund to a financial advisor firm. I was very fearful that, Who are we to start something that would be in all 50 states kind of a fear. But that need, or that thought of, We were able to help him, or we were able to get that loan closed in within about a week and a half for him. And that feeling of gratitude for being able to help somebody really got us over our own fear to go deeper down that profession. So I love your story. It’s very, in a way, similar to mine that got me moving my direction.
Michael Zhuang: Yes.
Josh Mettle: Well, listen. Let’s talk about the hurdles that physicians face when it comes to getting rich. And you know physicians don’t go into medicine to become rich, they go in to help people. And of course, it should provide a nice lifestyle as well, but they have some significant hurdles, so tell us a little bit about that, and let’s talk about some of the solutions that you have in mind.
Michael Zhuang: Okay, good. Yes, so I would say that most physicians start making money late because their training is so much longer than almost any other professions. They must go for long years, and then there’s residency where they make very little. But at time they can make really good money, there in their middle 30s, or maybe even their late 30s, when they have a wife, or a spouse, and childrens, when their family burden is also very high. And not to mention their student debt as well. So late start is definitely one reason as a major hurtle.
And I think the second thing is that there’s no financial training in medical school. Finance and management is so far removed from each other. Physicians are usually, generally speaking, are not very good at finance. Also a lot of younger physicians start out with a lifestyle expectation as well. A lifestyle expectation peered pressures when the society expect them to lead a certain high lifestyle, and they want to meet that. And not to mention they have like penned up self-gratification because they have been delaying that for so long, it’s time to splurge once they get their first big paycheck.
Yes, and also physicians as a profession, is still the highest income group in the country. And that make them a target of unscrupulous people. Yes. I can’t tell you how many physician friends and colleague has fell victim to unscrupulous salesmen. And lastly, and it may be the most importantly, is that the big environment, the natural environment of medicine has been changing. Now medicine is the most highly regulated field. Almost everything a physician do, they have to document it. They have to prove their worth. Even for a $50 reimbursement, they have to prove it to no fault.
So, all these reasons are hurdles for physicians to get rich. It’s different from their grandfather’s age, when medicine is more or less a free-market practice. Now it’s highly regulated, it’s much harder to make money, and with all the work a lot of physicians get exhausted just doing their work of medicines, they get exhausted, they have very little mental energy left to take good care of their personal finance. And all of these are hurdles, I guess I was not very logical in, but these are a list of hurdle I can think of.
Josh Mettle: That was a great list, let me give you one more that I have been thinking about recently which is you talked about their grandfather’s doctor or if the grandfather was a doctor, previous to our current times it seems like many of the physicians were private practice could build up over a career a business that could be sold and you know as well as I do in terms of a tax perspective that there was more sheltering of income and less tax burden as private practice. So if I worked for 40 years building my medical practice and I paid less taxes, even 5 or 10% less taxes I probably owned my building that my office was in, and had depreciation and tax deductions for that, and at the end of a 40 year private practice, I owned a building that was free and clear, I had a bunch of doctors around me that were creating income and I had something that I could sell.
So I was much an entrepreneur or business owner as I was a practitioner, and now that trend, correct me if you think I’m wrong please but, that trend seems to be towards health management groups and large hospital networks that are as you say paperwork to the Nth degree, W2 tax rates the highest in the country, and it just isn’t a wealth building strategy anymore.
Michael Zhuang: Yes, it’s a lot harder for physician to make significant money, that actually put extra burden on them to take better care of whatever money they made in summary.
Josh Mettle: Well good that list may not have been perfectly written out in order, but your list was extremely good. So let’s talk about a few cautionary tales. You’ve worked with some older physicians who have not overcome these, that great list of hurdles that you just gave us. Tell us just a little bit about those stories.
Michael Zhuang: I actually like collect all the story together and just want to give one example this is not an actual physician, but he make all the mistakes that my other clients make.
Josh Mettle: Okay.
Michael Zhuang: he’s 71 years old about to retire. Supposedly he has over like $10000000 worth of wealth, but then he still struggled for money, so how does that happen? So yes, to start off, he did build up a very nice OBDON practice, but he has no succession planning. So he basically just gave his practice away to his associate doctors and there goes almost $1000000 of value. So succession planning is extremely important, especially if you are in private practice. I guess for most of the younger physician nowadays is not less of an issue, but for middle age and older physicians, a lot of them are not thinking about that. And that’s actually super important. You don’t want to leave half a million to a million dollar on the table.
The second mistake he made is that he has over invested in real estates. He has his money, he’s a personal resident. He has like $3.5000000 worth of … His personal residence he bought it for $3.5000000 in Long Island. It’s about an hour away from the city and it’s very costly to maintain, it has a swimming pool, tennis court, but he doesn’t have time to play tennis and he doesn’t swim and it cost over 100k, 150k a year just for taxes and maintenance. It’s super expensive to maintain 3.5 million mansions, and you have thought any property in New York City should grow in value over the years?
The answer is yes. If the property is in Manhattan. His property is only an hour away from Manhattan, but it actually dropped in value in the last 20 years, it audit for 3.5 million. And eventually under my consult he sold the property and moved to a smaller place and he lost about 700 thousands, he sold it for 2.7 million. And this happened to a few of my clients if the location wasn’t right, so it’s miles away from the prime locations, the value of their property didn’t increase it actually dropped in value. Especially there’s a trend over the last 10, 20 years when people move away from the suburb. So this big mansion in the suburb actually fetching less value in the market. On top of that, he also has many real estate investment in multiple states, but like commercialized investment, they are not very well matched and this 5 million worth of other real estate investment are actually bleeding right in there. He’s lost 20000 a month just for those investment.
So there about 9 million, that 9 million of asset that is no producing income, when he was in his OBDON practice, this field of medicine is a target for lawyers. People like go doctors and especially Dr giving birth to childrens. So he put about 3 million of his money in irrevocable trust. So in a way it’s a good decision. Once the money is in an irrevocable trust it’s beyond the reach of the plaintiff lawyer. And he appointed his brother as the trustee of the trust. Now the problem is his brother does not answer his phone call anymore. He’s basically lost $3000000. Okay. And then one more mistake, actually two more. He wants to leave a ton of money for his childrens. So he bought so much life insurance, he’s like $5000000 worth of life insurance for his adult childrens. All of his childrens are grown up and have their own professionals, they’re making good money, but he has like $5000000 set aside and every month he has to pay about, or every year he has to pay about 60k. Yes. Just to fund the life insurance that his adult childrens don’t need.
So there goes big chunk of money every year. And then, so all that is left that the couple concussed when they retire is $2000000 in their set IRA. Right? But within this $2000000, 1 million was invested in annuity that has a 10 year lock, within 10 years they cannot touch it if they touch it there is a huge surrender charge. So all that they can touch, all the money they can touch is about $1000000. So with all these financial means that even though they have like over $10000000 worth of built up over the course of their life, now they actually struggle paying bills.
Josh Mettle: This is a compilation of all of the bad stories that you have helped people grapple with as a financial advisor. Is that right?
Michael Zhuang: Yes. But it’s actually a real person, who is making like 70 to 80%of the stories, some to 80% of the mistakes. Maybe a few more anyway.
Josh Mettle: Wow. Well those are pretty good, and I am embarrassed to admit I’ve fallen victim to at least one of those myself. So that’s what not to do? We don’t want to end up in our seventies looking like that. So walk us through the components of a wealth management system that would lead someone to a very different ending of their life or let’s call it the fourth quarter of their life?
Michael Zhuang: Gotcha. That’s a very good question. Like for physicians there are about three, actually not three, there are six parts of their financial life they need to pay attention to, maybe not all, like for instance a physician that worked for a hospital, they may not pay attention to all six, but it’s still got to listen to them. Number one most important is investment or well preservation. The purpose of investment is not to make a lot of money. The purpose of investment is so preserve wealth best in the way that the money will grow steadily. And the second component is tax mitigations. They need to have a strategy in place where the money they make don’t get taken by the IRS, right? They want to make sure legally how they can minimize their tax.
So tax mitigation is also super important to most physicians. The third one is asset protections. Many physicians are in the high risk field of malpractice lawsuit, right? [inaudible 00:20:45] for example, is definitely in the high risk field any surgeon are in the high risk field. So you need to arrange your asset in a way that would deter any plaintiff attorney, and it does not need to involve moving your assets into overseas in any tax haven, right? That’s not, there is some simple thing that you can do to make your wealth as solid to defend your asset against the plaintiff attorney. So this number three and number four is heir protections. You need to prepare for the unlikely event that if something happened to you, what would happen to your children and spouse? If you are the primary bread earner of the household, right?
I call it heir protections. Prepare for the unexpected, there are some doctors like my doctor, he didn’t prepare for that and the result wasn’t that good. Heir protections and then the fourth and the fifth one is practice successions. If you have a practice then make sure you have a succession plan. And the fifth one, that is the fifth one. And the sixth one is charitable planning as what I noticed as doctors grow older they feel like they can take care of themselves and take care of their relatives, their childrens, and they still have money left over. They begin to think about leaving an impact on the world, right?
You actually want to plan it in advance so you will get to that point. If you do your finance well, you will get to that point that you want to leave an impact on the world. How do you do it in a way that actually benefit yourself financially? There is a way that you can have a bigger impact on the world at the same time, you will save more taxes. So charitable planning is also important to a lot of doctors. So these are the five components, well preservation, tax mitigation, asset protections, heir protection, charitable planning and practice successions. So these are six components that a physician should to pay attention to.
Josh Mettle: So that rolls off of your tongue and makes sense and is well rounded. I’m guessing a lot of our listeners, you know the thought that crosses my mind is where does one start? So just kind of walk us through an example, if someone is referred to you and they’re somewhere along the path of the cautionary tale that you told us earlier, how do you go about weaving all of these different disciplines together and advising them in these six areas?
Michael Zhuang: That’s a Fantastic question as well. I have a system in place to help them do that. And the first meeting I would say it actually consists of a sequence of meetings. The first meeting is called a discovery meeting. So basically I talk to the physician for an hour, 45 minutes to an hour and I ask questions and find out where they are financially, what are their goals, what are their responsibility. What are their obligations, what was their advisor they work with, what their hobbies and their interests et cetera, what they’re passionate about life? So I basically understand everything about dispositions. Because there’s a basis of making good financial decisions. And then with that meeting I would understand where the gaps in the hole between what they want to get to and what’s their current situations. I have a sense of that.
And then the second meetings it’s called a big picture plan meeting. So in these meetings I prepare a big picture plan for the doctor and in the big picture plan I will include all the issues I identify from our first meetings, like maybe hidden cause in their investments or bad investments or they are not saving enough or they did not have a way out for their young childrens, et cetera. I identify all the gaps in the holes in their financial big pictures and lay out theirs and have a plan how to help them close those gaps. Yes. And then the third meeting is for them to make a decision basically the third meetings, I want them to take the plan home and sit only for a week and think about whether they can do it themselves or they want me to help them.
And the third meeting I call it a commitment meetings. So they made a decision then whether they are going to retain me as their advisor or they feel like they are qualified to take care of that, because the document, the big picture plan really point them in the directions. Still very valuable, they’re first two meeting I actually provide for free for physician that come for help. And the third meetings sometime the physician [inaudible 00:25:58]. They didn’t have a lot of wealth. so naturally they couldn’t become my client, but they still have a plan. They still have a clear direction to still help them.
So in the third meeting, some physician some of them decided that they want Michael’s help, and they become my clients. And once they become my clients then I begin to implement the plan for them, and I would meet with them every quarter, in every quarter we actually go through the minor process, a similar process of discovering and planning. Because as new situations arise, I discover that through asking questions I discover and then make adjustments to the plan and discover like every quarter we go through this process again, it’s a very iterative process that gradually move the doctor into a better financial situation towards their goal.
Josh Mettle: Wonderful. Love it, very detailed. And I think as I was reading about you and your information beyond the components that you’ve described, the six components, you talked a little bit about developing a process of wealth management. Is that the same wealth management components that we just discussed or is that a different process you wanted to talk about?
Michael Zhuang: It’s actually the process I talk about.
Josh Mettle: Okay. Very good.
Michael Zhuang: Every time we meet with the doctor, I go through the six components, right? Usually I will be handling their investment already, so I have to report to them how their investments are doing, and then made sure that the tax situation is taken care of. I work with a lot of CPAs, I work with attorneys and they offer a review of my clients tax situations. So if there’s nothing changed of course that part is taken care of. If there’s new situation arise and we need to examine the implication on tax as well is it an opportunity to save more tax or will it cause more tax or what other arrangement we need to make. If the doctor is a new kids, it has some other indication as well. So as the process move along, we always go through the six components, examine it against their new situations and see what we can do.
Josh Mettle: Great. Make sure they’re still headed North. I get it.
Michael Zhuang: That’s right.
Josh Mettle: So Michael tell us how you advise clients and our listeners who really want to know, how do they go about finding a financial advisor that has their best interest in mind? You pointed out earlier that one of the big pitfalls or hurdles to physicians becoming wealthy is that physicians are targets to unscrupulous salespeople. So walk us down that path of how do You, I guess at least avoid becoming a victim or a target from a financial advisor and what they can do to protect themselves?
Michael Zhuang: Yes. I try to make it short because this can take me like 30 minutes to talk about that. Yes. The other financial service industries is filled with conflict of interest. Because there are two set of law that regulate financial advisors one set of law is basically ask them to be a broker. You know, we can wear a hat and call ourself financial advisors, but in fact we can either be a broker or a registered investment advisors. If you are a broker, you are not required to put your clients interests first. But if you’re a registered investment advisor, the law require you to put your clients interests first. Guess what’s the percentage of financial advisor who are broker?
Josh Mettle: 80, 90.
Michael Zhuang: 99%
Josh Mettle: 99%
Michael Zhuang: 99% of financial advisor or broker who are not required by law to put your interests first. There is only one percent are required by law. That’s even before we talk about their qualification. The law required to put your, this is a very basic thing. You don’t screw your clients. 99% of financial advisor I now required to not do that. That’s why it’s super important to first step. Make sure your financial advisor is not a broker.
Josh Mettle: And how do you do that?
Michael Zhuang: You ask the questions, what license you have? If you say I have a series seven license. “Oh, you asked, do you have a series seven license?” If they have a series seven license, they are a broker.
Josh Mettle: Got it.
Michael Zhuang: You actually do not want who has a series seven license. You want to have a financial advisor who has a series 65 license only. A series 65 license is a registered investment advisor license that legally requires them to put their client’s interests first.
Josh Mettle: Series 65 license?
Michael Zhuang: Yeah. Series 65 license. And there are advisors who have both license, but they have a series 65, so one that requires them to put your clients interests first and the other hat will not require them. So in different situations they wear different hats. You kind of don’t want them as well, you want to have a pure registered investment advisor. People who only have series 65.
Josh Mettle: Great. I love it. Anything else beyond the license that you could give our listeners as tips?
Michael Zhuang: Okay, good. Yes. The world of finance is in terms of the practice of finances. Is like … Sorry I have to start over again-
Josh Mettle: That’s okay. No problem
Michael Zhuang: Yes. I want to give the physician and listener good tips on how to find those one percent of advisors. Right? It is more useful than what I was thinking about going to tell you.
Josh Mettle: Yeah. Thank you.
Michael Zhuang: Because I don’t want all them to come to me because I wouldn’t be to handle all of them. There is an organization for producer advisor called NAPFA let me google it, give me a second, let me google it.
Josh Mettle: Yeah please.
Michael Zhuang: So National Association of Personal Financial Advisor. Yes. NAPFA.
Josh Mettle: NAPFA, got it.
Michael Zhuang: This is a professional organization that would make it easier to find financial advisors who are required to put your clients interests first. So it’s called NAPFA N-A-P-F-A called the National Association of Personal Financial Advisors.
Josh Mettle: Great.
Michael Zhuang: They’re also called Fee Only Financial Advisors. So they’re only compensated by the fee paid by clients, because for the broker for the other financial advisor, they can give you advice and collect your fee, but they also get kicked back when they put other peoples investment into your portfolio. So they get compensated from bender as well. You don’t want those conflict of interest. You only want financial advisor who are compensated by fee that you pay. So this is their national organization.
Josh Mettle: That is a fantastic tip. I mean, those two pieces there that you want a registered financial advisor and you want them to have the series 65 license and fee only, so there’s no conflict of interest of them putting you in a particular fund that they’re getting a kickback on, on the back end, but that may not be the fund that they’re in.
Michael Zhuang: Yeah that’s right.
Josh Mettle: And Michael, just out of curiosity, how are you paid? How do your clients pay you? I’m assuming it’s fee only, how do you structure that fee? Is it based on wealth or performance or how do you do that?
Michael Zhuang: Oh yes. I’m a fee only financial advisor regularly under the registered investment advisor act. So I’m a pure fiduciary, I wear only one hat that is I’m a fiduciary to my physician client, and most of my physicians actually all my physician are payed on their assets under my management. So for the first million it’s one percent fee and then progressively for any amount above a million is zero point seven percent. And then for any amount above 5 million is zero point four percent. So it’s a stagger fee schedule. The more money the physician has with me, the lower the percentage.
Josh Mettle: Makes sense. It’s transparent and you’re just putting them in exactly the funds that would be the best. There’s nothing coming on the back end.
Michael Zhuang: Yes. And decision is entirely uninfluenced by other things because I’m legally not allowed to receive any kick back because I do not have the broker license. Once you don’t have the broker license it’s illegal for you to receive any commissions or any kickback from the vendors?
Josh Mettle: You did a wonderful job explaining the dichotomy between those two designations. Thank you very much there. Hey, let’s end with this Michael, because the title of your book, “How to build and protect your wealth in uncertain times.” And we kind of went over, obviously you’re six steps in your strategy there. But let me ask you a question about uncertain times that are ahead. We find ourselves right now as the recording of this in August of 2018 with the stock markets at an all time high with commercial and residential real estate at an all time high, generally speaking, not in every market in every, this doesn’t hold true in Detroit right now. But generally speaking, and we also find ourselves at a point where consumer debt is at an all time high. Corporate debt is at an all time high and government debt is at an all time high and to a certain degree you would expect that to happen as the economy grows, right? If there’s more GDP than you would expect that companies, people could afford more debt.
But it seems to me that if you look at the amount of automobile debt over a trillion, the amount of student loan debt over a trillion and we’ve gotten out of the mortgage debt, by the way, where we’re now, the percentage of equity to debt on mortgage is lower than it has been in a very long time because people have been in their loans for a long time. They like those three percent interest rates. But where do you see the storm clouds ahead and what’s your forecast on the economy as you look forward?
Michael Zhuang: Yes. That’s a fantastic question, Josh. The thing is that I always tell my client I’m very bad at making forecasts.
Josh Mettle: Every economIst is.
Michael Zhuang: They just don’t admit it. I admit it. You’ll see the sky is all clear and the economy is doing so well. The sky is clear. The storm carries us beyond the horizons. Right. It’s just beyond the horizon. Think would turn a on a time basically. I remember three months before the last financial crisis, the financial market collapsed in 2008. I went to a central bank conference where one of the VP of the central banks gave a talk about our nation’s economy. And he said that it’s all clear. They have many PHDs, crunching numbers from all the countries. They have the best data of anybody and they have the smartest people in the printing of data and all his eye can see is that it’s all clear.
Maybe Someday down the road there will be a recession, but it’s not that he can see, it’s years away, years away, and three months later the market collapsed. This is the vice president, a just retired vice president of the central bank. Okay. He will sit with Alan Greenspan, basically making important monitoring decision for the nations. And this is what he can do, the extent he can forecast, which is pretty bad.
Josh Mettle: Look at it this way, Michael, you can’t do any worse, so tell us what you got.
Michael Zhuang: I will say one thing I want to mention is that it’s much more relevant to physician is the situations with CMS fund, the healthcare fund. What was the right way, the fund that the CMS reimburse the physician. It’s running out, it’s not going to last forever. This is the fiasco crisis they should watch for, right? Our country spend 20% of our GDP on healthcare, 20%. If healthcare is an independent country, it’s the fifth largest country in the world, right? I think it’s behind Germany, but ahead of England. It’s a huge economy.
Josh Mettle: It’s incredible.
Michael Zhuang: Yes. And that’s actually part of the reason, part of a source of the crisis is the demand for healthcare is so much and our people are not getting healthy. That demand for healthcare is so much. And the money is not quite there, were using futures money to fund our healthcare need today. How long they can last. I don’t know. And there could be some very tough decision going forward. This is why there is so much struggle, like political struggles. We just have Obama care was a struggle through that for years, for eight years. And now we’re struggling to remove that because actually nobody has a very good idea how to fix it. And that creates tremendous uncertainty in medicines.
In other words, with all the uncertainty that you users mention, with all the debt here and there, the biggest uncertainty is actually in medicines. The biggest is in the medicines, the biggest fiasco problem. Sorry, I apologize for my. What’s the right way to pronounce it fiasco?
Josh Mettle: Fiasco yeah, you nailed it.
Michael Zhuang: I was very close.
Josh Mettle: Yeah, you got it.
Michael Zhuang: The biggest fiasco problem our nation face is in medicine, is in healthcare. Yes. And it’s going to hit our doctors one way or the other. Some time down the road I believe.
Josh Mettle: Well, I think the takeaway is, become financially literate means and make sure you have a financial plan. And so I always know we’ve had a good podcast when we’ve gone over time. I’ve really enjoyed speaking with you. I know that some of our listeners are going to want to have a chance to take a look at your book and find out more about you. So where can they find your book and where can they contact you if they have additional questions or want to ask how you might be able to help them?
Michael Zhuang: Gotcha. Well if they have like $25 to spare, then they can go to Amazon to buy it. If they want to get away my book free, they can go to my website, my website NZCAP.com. Okay. You go to my website, basically you can request my book for free.
Josh Mettle: Well awesome. And the website is probably the best way to contact you as well?
Michael Zhuang: Yes. Yes. If they want to start the wealth management process because like I mentioned the first meeting of the process, I offer it for free for any doctor at any stage of their career. And they can just make a decision whether they want to repay me or not. So the discovery and the big picture plan, they can basically get it for free and they can just go to my website and request that.
Josh Mettle: Excellent. And we’ll put a link to your website down below. Michael, you’ve shared generously, you’ve given us valuable information. I love the information on the series 65 license and fee only investment advisor. Thank you so much for your time and I hope to have you back again as a future guest.
Michael Zhuang: Yes. Well, thank you very much for having me as well.
Josh Mettle: My pleasure, my friend. Have a great day.
Michael Zhuang: You too.
To learn more about Michael and MZ Capital, visit www.mzcap.com