On this episode, we are excited to have Jan Miller, a nationally renowned student loan consultant with 20 years’ experience in working with private and Federal Student Loans, investment advising, credit card operations, and many other facets of the personal finance industry. Please tune in to hear Jan share his deep knowledge about:
- the new Repay Program – what it is, when it will roll out and what it means for you
- what IBR is and how it compares to the Repay Program
- whether using Repay disqualifies you for he Public Service Loan Forgiveness program
- caveats to the Repay program that are essential to understand
- how to get a sales pitch free consultation with him to get your student loan questions answered
Josh Mettle: Hello and welcome to the Physician Financial Success Podcast. My name is Josh Mettle, and this is the podcast dedicated to advising physicians how to avoid financial landmines. Today, we’ll be talking with Jan Miller, a nationally renowned student loan consultant with 20 years’ experience in working with private and Federal Student Loans, investment advising, credit card operations, and many other facets of the personal finance industry.
Over the years, Jan has worked with many of the big companies such as Morgan Stanley, Wells Fargo, Citi, and Discover. Jan’s insider knowledge enables him to deliver the best practices for managing student loan debt and the information that is often only made available to these big entities and not to the public.
So without any further adieu, Jan I’m excited to welcome you to the show. How are you this morning?
Jan Miller: I am doing well, Josh. Thank you for having me.
Josh Mettle: I am excited to have you because this is such a hot topic that so many of our clients and friends want to know about and of course with the new Repay that’s just going into effect, we’ve got some killer content to get into.
Jan Miller: Yes, indeed. It’s never ending actually. We can have a 24-hour podcast quite easily.
Josh Mettle: Livestream. Here’s the newest information as it comes out, huh?
Jan Miller: Yeah.
Josh Mettle: Well, I want to dive into that but first I’d just love to know a little bit more about you. If you might just give us a brief background how you got started working with these companies and how it’s got kind of morphed itself into what you do today.
Jan Miller: Yeah. Believe it or not, I used to be a musician. I started out as a professional opera singer and I would do that for about 8 years. When my daughter came around into the picture, a little bit before, I decided to get a “stable job,” so I went to work for a company called Nelnet Corporation back in 1997.
Josh Mettle: Yeah.
Jan Miller: They’re a student loan servicer with many borrowers. You may be familiar. They’re a pretty big servicer with a lot of loans.
Josh Mettle: Yeah.
Jan Miller: And that’s where I started learning about the student loan industry also my kind of introduction into the financial world if you will, and I worked there for a while. I also worked directly for the US Department of Education with loan servicing and so forth, and worked on the inside for a while. Then from there, I kind of transferred into banking and I eventually got up into investment advising with Morgan Stanley, but all the while helping people. Everybody I ran into ‑ my dentist, to my brother-in-law whoever, somebody on the street, everybody I questioned about student loans.
The moment they found out that I knew something about it, they sought out my help and more than just simple questions but rather, “Hey, I need help with this.” So kind of on the side, I’ve been helping people for years with their student loans and I also worked on the private side as well as you mentioned with Discover Financial and Citibank that have a private student loan division there.
I guess my background is pretty balanced on both sides and kind of I can see all sides of the industry and helped a lot of people and kind of counterbalanced and tempered that with my financial background, my understanding how that world works, and eventually the demand got so great for what I did. I retired from Morgan Stanley and made student loans my sole focus, and Miller Student Loan Consulting was born in 2010 and I’ve been doing it ever since.
Josh Mettle: That’s great! I don’t think I’ve ever met anybody with as much insider background with both Federal and private student loans and the length of experience that you have. This is going to make for a very interesting conversation.
Jan Miller: Well, so.
Josh Mettle: Let’s transition into the news of the hour, which I think is the Repay Program that just came out. Maybe just take a minute and tell us how it affects public student loan forgiveness, IBR, Pay As You Earn, and what do significant changes under this new program are going to be?
Jan Miller: Sure, sure. It’s big news. Of course, the program is coming out here, December 15, if all goes well. It’s when this program is supposed to be in effect. We’ll see exactly how that unfolds but it will be here soon. The program is kind of a hybrid between IBR and Pay As You Earn, so let me just explain those programs briefly because understand in Repay you have to first understand the income-based repayment program, which typically especially for physicians who have been in school long enough that is the typical program that they qualify for that lowers their payments based on their income rather on the balance interest rate of the loan.
Josh Mettle: Right.
Jan Miller: Especially of course this is valuable in residency where you have a much lower income in comparison to the size of your debt, and it’s usually beneficial to be able to lower your payment towards – based on your income instead of having to pay what your standard payment would be, which can be thousands of dollars a month. Who can afford that when you’re living on a residency salary or you know if you’re in any other type of position where you start out you don’t come out the gates out of school, making tons of money. You might be starting your practice or your business or whatever, and there is an interim there where you’re trying to establish your career and the program is excellent for that.
In addition to that, there’s a forgiveness component to the program, in which, in all of these programs, in which after a certain number of years and of course if you qualify for the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program, if you work for a nonprofit or government agency, you can have the loan forgiven tax-free in 10 years. The idea is to lower your payment is through the income-based repayment program, the more you are going to have forgiven at the end of those 10 years, so the less you pay out overall on the life of your loans.
Well, the IBR program, which is available to pretty much all borrowers who aren’t parents because Parent PLUS Loans do not qualify for the IBR Program. They may qualify for a different program called income contingent repayment, but I don’t want to get too crazy with the details. I’ll just stick with IBR. With IBR, it takes basically lower your payment based on 15 percent of your discretionary income and the new Repay Program lowers that 10, so effectively this new program potentially can lower your payment another 33 percent, which increases the amount that you could potentially have forgiven. I’m sorry the story is too long there, but‑
Josh Mettle: No, it’s perfect.
Jan Miller: Yeah. The Repay Program is basically a better version of IBR. There’s already a better version of IBR called Pay As You Earn but that program is only for new borrowers. In other words, if your loans are too old, so to speak, then you don’t qualify for the Pay As You Earn program. Of course as we know most docs have been in school since the Stone Ages, so their loans are simply too old to qualify for that program whereas the Repay Program allows them, in many cases not all, to qualify for a lower payment on a 10 percent calculation without having to worry about the age of the loans. That’s the basic gist of it.
Josh Mettle: Got it. That makes sense. Let’s go just a little bit further here and do these new changes to the Repay Program, do they give us some clues or are you reading anything into some potential changes to the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program and is there any correlation there that you can draw?
Jan Miller: Right, so now okay as it relates to the Public Service Loan Forgiveness question that the concern is – do I lose what I’ve already accumulated in qualified payments under IBR? If I switch to Repay, does it still qualify for public service. The answer is you got to keep all of your existing qualifying payments, so if you put 3 years in, at the lower payment on IBR and you qualify for the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, you’ll only have 7 years left even if you switch to the Repay Program, so there’s no problem there. It does still qualify of course your payments under Repay qualify for the Public Service Loan Forgiveness as well. So there is no loss in benefits or qualification in that regard.
The difference is with the program is there are a couple of caveats to it that are important to understand. With the IBR program, first of all your payment is determined on your adjusted gross income, so if you are married, you have to include your spouse’s income, so that can dramatically raise your payment, right? Well, the IBR program has a little loophole to get out of that and you can file married separately, so then it only includes your income. That can be very beneficial to a lot of borrowers who have spouses who make a lot of money and can sometimes make too much money and disqualify for the program. All they need to do is file separately and they can exclude their income from their payment.
Well, the Repay Program doesn’t let you do that, so that’s the one caveat there. If you have a spouse that makes a significant income then the Repay Program’s benefit of 10 percent is going to be offset by the increased income of your spouse, so that’s something to be aware of. The other thing that gets a lot of attention is that there’s no cap on the Repay Program. What that means is under the IBR Program, your payment can only go so high basically equivalent to the 10 year standard payment.
With the Repay Program, your payment can go up and up and up as your income does. Well, you can see especially for a physician where that would be a drawback because they may start out at $50,000 a year in residency but jump to $250,000 a year when they go up to permanent position, right? Their payment can get greater and greater and greater with their income and it can kind of pay off more, majority of the loan before they reach the 10-year forgiveness that way. That’s a possibility. That’s one potential drawback. However, we’ll say that because of the 10 percent calculation often it takes so long to get to that cap that it’s not really relevant in many cases, but it can potentially eliminate any of the benefits of the program.
Josh Mettle: Let’s just talk about a couple of potential situations. If I’m a newly attending, and I am going to work for a nonprofit or public hospital system, and I think that income is going to be in that $250,000 range, maybe $300,000 range, something like that, and I don’t have a spouse that is dual income, then it sounds like this Repay Program is going to be good for me because it’s going to limit my payments to 10 percent of my adjusted gross income. I don’t have the dual-income scenario, and I can limit the number of payments that I’m going to make between start day and the 10-year forgiveness. Does that sound right?
Jan Miller: Yeah, that’s right. For single borrowers, the program is especially good because the spouse’s income no longer impacts your payment in that situation. Of course, sometimes it’s hard to – you have to look in your crystal ball‑
Josh Mettle: Right.
Jan Miller: And if you’re going to get married in the next few years, but that situation is different for everybody but you want to be aware of the impact of that decision in order to repay and if you get married too soon, you may kind of eliminate some of your benefits. If your spouse doesn’t make that significant of an income, then it’s no big deal. If your spouse makes less than 50 percent of what you do, then the program will still benefit you as much or more than IBR.
Josh Mettle: Got it.
Jan Miller: But if your spouse makes more than 50 percent of your income in general terms, speaking generally that the math also starts to work against you a little bit.
Josh Mettle: Better off to stay with IBR. I got it. Okay, you did say if one had entered in to IBR and let’s say they finished up their residency and fellowship in an IBR, then now they want to move over to the Repay, they can do that and it doesn’t negate the payments that they’ve made under IBR, so that’s good.
Now, what about the opposite? What if someone comes out of training and goes into Repay and that’s going along just right as planned, then they marry another doc and now they’ve got a dual-income household – or whatever situation impacts the income such that it spikes ‑ can they move from Repay over to IBR at that point?
Jan Miller: That is a fantastic question. So presently you can move from IBR to Pay As You Earn early pretty much at will or I don’t know if people are aware of this, but if you qualify for the Pay As You Earn Program, and many times, because unfortunately the loan servicers, they don’t have the best training programs for these representatives that they hire. It costs money to train and to hire people who – and this stuff is way too complicated to teach in a 2-week training course. When you call your student loan servicer, you’re talking to a rep who maybe have been on the phone for a couple of months and had pretty limited amount of training. Often they’ll get people in the wrong program and they put people on IBR when they should be on Pay As You Earn, for example.
I just had one of those last night actually. I talked to a borrower, and she’s like, “My payment is too high. How do I lower it?” I found out in the course of the conversation that she was in the wrong program. I was able to advise her that we can lower your payment by 33 percent.
Josh Mettle: It’s amazing.
Jan Miller: You don’t even have to hire me to do it. I mean you just need to apply for the Pay As You Earn Program. But to answer your question, you can switch between those. Will you be able to switch from Repay to the IBR program and back and forth? That’s a good question. I don’t know that yet because the program isn’t in place yet and number 2, there’s no precedence for that. They haven’t actually implemented it until December 15th, and I don’t think they even know what they’re doing entirely yet. But it will be interesting to see to me if they do allow the change because I could foresee potentially where they may not want to do that.
The whole purpose for some of these changes with the Repay Program are to kind of eliminate that spousal exclusion and prevent some of these – I hate to use the word loophole I’ve been getting some concern about that, but some of these ‑
Josh Mettle: Benefits.
Jan Miller: IBR that really benefits the physician obviously that much that they’re trying to eliminate it a little bit, so I could see based on where they’re trending with what regulations they want to apply for the future that it may be possible they won’t let you out of the Repay Program once you’re in it, so that question I will let you know as soon as I know.
Josh Mettle: Great, yeah. Send me an email. We’ll blog about it. That was really a good segue, Jan. Tell me what do you think that overriding intention is with Repay. I mean they made a pretty substantial change in direction here. What are they trying to accomplish? What’s the underlying desired end-result of this program?
Jan Miller: Right.
Josh Mettle: Do you have a gut feel for that?
Jan Miller: Yes, so this is a fantastic question. I’m glad you asked it because I have a lot of clients and again I would tell you physicians ask this question very commonly, “Is the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program going to be even there in 10 years? Can I count on it?”
I’ve actually heard of residency programs advising their residents not to PSLF because it’s not going to be there, and that’s not true. That is inappropriate even to say, so, the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program is going to be there for you if you’re in that program now. You’ll be grandfathered into that program almost certainly.
Now with the Repay Program and its new changes, actually kind of sheds some light. They kind of foreshadow where they’re going with these programs instead of getting rid of it or putting some sort of huge cap on the forgiveness and so forth. They are trying to make the program make more sense for both low-income and high-income earners that qualify for the program. For example, removing the cap, the cap only benefits high-income earners because if you hit the cap, that means your payment is and your income is high enough to pay the 10-year standard, so you should be able to afford your loan payment.
Josh Mettle: Right.
Jan Miller: The people who are benefiting from the cap were making incomes far greater than that threshold and still qualifying for the forgiveness based on their payments, the smaller payments made in internship or in years before. That’s one of the things they have been talking about with eliminating that benefit to borrowers who have that big income jump, taking away the cap and letting the income skyrocket with it. So if you make so much money, if you make $1 million a year, well then your payment under the program gets high enough to pay off the loan and you don’t take advantage or anything of the program. So I think that’s actually not a bad idea and it’s also kind of an example of a specific legislation designed to address that issue, which has been something of a concern with a lot of people of late.
The other thing, too, is that this program is brand-new. The Repay Program is going into effect in December and it is specifically designed around the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, so there you go right there. The government is still putting together new programs that are specifically designed to work in conjunction with the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program. That’s again a sign, an indication, a foreshadow that Public Service Loan Forgiveness is here to stay.
If the changes happen that aren’t as favorable to some clients in the future, those will only affect new borrowers who take out loans after the legislation goes into effect. And that’s because the Federal government, they grandfather everything. In fact, the reason for the Repay Program is because of the grandfathering. When Obama back in 2014 put through an executive order to allow the 15 percent IBR people to qualify for 10 percent, the 10 percent version, they could have really made this easy. They could have said, “Okay, effective December 15th, everybody who is on IBR now qualifies as Pay As You Earn get the 10 percent.” End of story. That would have saved them millions of dollars in changing the infrastructure around Repay and all this stuff. They just simply would have let everybody join it, but they couldn’t do that because Pay As You Earn is already a grandfathered part of regulations. They can’t change that because it’s already in place. Instead they had to create a brand-new program, which also allowed them to implement some of these new twists on the rules.
Long story long, that’s what I try to tell people the Repay Program is actually an indication, whether you qualify or not or can benefit from it or not, it’s indication that Public Service Loan Forgiveness is likely here to stay.
Josh Mettle: Yeah, I would agree. It sounds like the terms make pretty good sense, right? I mean the intention sounds like we understand that physicians and other medical professionals are going to bear these student loans and there’s a lot of responsibility that goes along with that and a lot of risks. We want to provide a safe atmosphere for them to enter into Repayment and work for public service facilities. If income does spike, then they want to recoup those student loans, but they want to make it so that they can still afford homes, and families, and other things. It seems fairly like a reasonable program to me.
Jan Miller: I agree. The whole idea is to help people who need a lower payment. If you think about it like right now based on the way the program is now, some residency and fellowships programs go on for 4, 5, or 6 years.
Josh Mettle: Sure, sure.
Jan Miller: And then the verification you use to create your payment is based on last year’s adjusted gross income. Well, you know all docs start in July, right?
Josh Mettle: Yeah.
Jan Miller: So when they get into a new position, so what happens is you get 5 years of income-based repayments or 3 years at least if you have for example a typical 3-year residency program. Then the next year, you still have lower payments even though you have your new position because you made less last year.
Josh Mettle: Yeah.
Jan Miller: Then the year after that, your income is only half of what it actually is because you started in July. So only half of the year, so literally you’re going 5 years with payments very low in comparison to your income. Then when you get to your permanent position and you’re making $250,000 or $300,000 a year whatever it is, then under the current IBR program, your income caps the payment, and you’ve got all the rewards from your lower payment residency but you’re not suffering from your higher income due to the cap. So eliminating the cap makes sense to me. It still lowers your payment. It still saves you lots of money, but it makes more sense for the program honestly, so that’s kind of my take on it is I still think it’s a very good thing.
Josh Mettle: Yeah, I agree. Okay, we’ve talked a lot about Public Loan Forgiveness. Let’s talk a little bit about what kind of options there are for physicians not working for nonprofits or that aren’t eligible for Public Loan Forgiveness. Can you speak through the different strategies like staying in IBR or private loan refinance or any other unorthodox repayment strategies that you typically advise or have reason to advise?
Jan Miller: Exactly. What I found, too, you know the cookie cutter situation 3 years in residency and you hit all Federal loans and you’re on course for forgiveness of all your debt in 10 years because you’re going to work for a hospital. That’s a cookie cutter situation. A lot of the docs fall into that, but there’s a lot of people who have unique situations, who enter school late, who didn’t know about the program unfortunately and we’re in intern residency forbearance during residency and they’re just now becoming aware of the program and they missed out on their lower income during residency but there’s that.
Then other people going into private practice or into a position that is not covered under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness. One other thing I see too with emergency care docs a lot is that they work for contractors technically and so the people who sign their paycheck are a for-profit entity even though they’re working in a nonprofit hospital. That just messes things up a little bit. It’s still possible for those people to potentially qualify for forgiveness but it makes the issue a little bit more complicated.
For those types of people, the answer of course varies for everybody but there are some typical scenarios, (1) is to stay in IBR but open a small and conservative investment account on the side to prepare for the eventual taxable event of any forgiveness that may happen in 25 years because under the IBR program, if you don’t qualify for public service, any income forgiven after 25 years is taxable. That’s still can be quite sizable and who wants to pay their loans for 25 years and then owe the IRS.
Josh Mettle: Sure.
Jan Miller: Not a great idea but if you do the math, it can still be a tremendous savings over just outright paying the loan. Another option would be of course to refinance through a private student loan lender and move all the balance over there, and typically you can cut your interest rates in half by doing that. A lot of my clients gets anywhere from 2.5 percent to 4 percent on the refinance of their Federal Student Loans into a private student loan.
But of course with the refinance, that is what I call a commitment. Not only do you lose all the Federal programs the moment you do it, but the payment is often much higher because it has a shorter term and you’re still paying the full balance. So you might save money in interest in the long run, you may or may not, but you have to be ready to make a much larger payment and there’s no turning back. I mean it’s basically a private student loan. There’s no forbearances, deferments. All of that is gone. You have to be ready to make that payment every month on time to keep your credit intact and avoid defaulting on the loans, so‑
Josh Mettle: Jan, just a quick question on that. Actually two things that came to mind because I don’t know nearly as much about the private refinance sector. What are the typical amortizations or terms that you’re seeing? You talked about a 2.5 percent to 4 percent rates. What kind of terms in terms of length, or duration, and amortization are you seeing out there?
Jan Miller: They usually offer 5, 10, or 15 years.
Josh Mettle: Okay.
Jan Miller: There are some exceptions SoFi is offering a 7-year term and then some offer 20, 25, but typically 5, 10, or 15 are the typical – they’ll give you a Federal. Most of the lenders will give you a Federal or private option, so they may say, “Okay. We’ll give you, you qualify for 3.5 variable or 5.1 fixed that type of thing and you can decide if you want to take the gamble on a better fixed rate or take the security of the fixed rate and keep the same interest rates throughout. Yeah, that’s kind of what typical to do. The longer the term, the slightly higher your interest rate will be.
Josh Mettle: Sure, yeah it makes sense. Just like a mortgage, that makes total sense like a car loan. I know on a Federal Student Loan not that this is anybody’s plan but I think the question begs to be asked on a Federal Student Loan, you cannot file personal bankruptcy and get rid of that federal debt. It will continue to follow you around. Am I correct in that, by the way, Jan?
Jan Miller: Well, it’s almost true.
Josh Mettle: Okay.
Jan Miller: The Federal and private student loan lenders both have protection from bankruptcy under the laws, so you just can’t stick it in with everything else and do a Chapter 7 or 13 or whatever. But there are circumstances if you can prove undue hardship that you actually have part or all of your Federal Student Loan debt forgiven. However, that is extremely hard to do and rare. Don’t count on it. You have to prove that there is no way that you’re going to be able pay this loan back in the rest of your life.
Josh Mettle: Got it.
Jan Miller: And for a court to agree to that is an unusual circumstance. Basically, if you’re able to work and hold a job, you’re probably not going to qualify.
Josh Mettle: It sounds like some sort of medical disability or something like that.
Jan Miller: Stuff like that, a lot of permanent total disability situation that type of thing.
Josh Mettle: Yeah. So what about private student loans then? Are private student loans bankruptible?
Jan Miller: Same thing with them actually. They have – I don’t believe this is fair, honestly but private student loans enjoy the same protection from bankruptcy that Federal loans do.
Josh Mettle: Interesting.
Jan Miller: It’s one of the few similarities actually that private loans have to Federal loans, and so that is the real problem. Those are the sad stories in the clients where they have to decide – they’re in situations – for example, I have nurses who make $45,000 a year and have $230,000 in private student loan debt. They cannot afford those payments no matter what they do, so they have to decide, “Okay, do I have to let the loan default and let them garnish my wages?” Because that’s the wage garnishment at 15 percent to 25 percent or whatever it is going to be way less than the amount of payment is and it’s a terrible spot to be in because you have to worry about who wants to have a judgment filed against them and worry about all the collection calls and all of that stuff. Either that or some people are in the position where they have to basically spend their entire income and live off of ramen noodles just so they can afford to stay afloat.
Those are the decisions those people are having to make and they can’t, based on the current law, they cannot have debt discharged under bankruptcy, so it’s not an option for them. So it’s really I think it’s an unfortunate thing because with Federal loans, you know you may have severe consequences for not paying; however, they bend over for you, bend over backwards for you to make sure that you can make your payment. There’s consolidations. There’s years of forbearance. There’s deferments. You have income ‑
Josh Mettle: Right.
Jan Miller: Plans. I mean there really is an actually – there doesn’t exist that I’ve seen a situation where I can’t help somebody out of their student loan, their Federal Student Loan crisis. You can rehabilitate those loans. It’s the only type of loan that I know of that can actually fix a defaulted loan, bring it back in the current standing and erase the default from the credit report. That’s an opportunity that everybody defaults on a federal loan has and no other type of loan will give you that.
As tough as they are with federal loans, you know not letting you do the bankruptcy, they have special collection powers the Federal government does. They can garnish your wages and take your income tax return without filing judgment, it’s the US government, like the IRS. They’re tough but on the flip side of it, they give you every opportunity to pay back those loans no matter what your situation.
Josh Mettle: Well, Jan, there are a lot of pitfalls and a lot of moving pieces in this student loan business. Let’s wrap with this. Tell us a little bit about your role as an advisor and consultant and what exactly you typically do for clients, and if our listeners want to find out about more about you and the services you offer, how do they go about finding you?
Jan Miller: Sure, sure. Well, I’ll first say how to find me that’s the easiest way probably is just to Google “Student Loan Consultant.” If you do that, I’m usually the top organic search no matter where you are and Miller Student Loan Consultant is the name of my company. You can also go to my website, which is student-loan-consultant.com, all singular, Right there on the front page, there will be a link right on my front page. It’s “Click Here to Schedule.” The best way to get hold of me is not try to cold call me. Obviously, I’m on the phone a lot of the day, so if you set up an appointment, then I will call you at the specified time. My smartphone will remind me that we have an appointment. In that way, we can make sure that we connect, but that’s how to get ahold of me.
As far as what I do, it’s whatever is needed is the short answer to it, but typically what I will do is gather the information. As far as let’s talk about the free consultation first. This is what I call a sales pitch free consultation. I would say 50 percent of the people who set up calls with me do not need to become clients. They just have questions and I can answer those over the phone for them freely if what they need can be answered over the phone or within a half-hour time period. The other half need long-term help and assistance with their loans and a plan developed or some sort of strategy developed to resolve their situation or help their situation and those are the people that usually become clients and I work with on a long-term basis.
If you decide to become a client, then I will go to the information gathering process and analyze your entire student loan information, all of your student loan portfolio, and then put together what I call my student loan business plan. It’s like a financial plan for your student loan. And map out exactly, you get to see the difference in costs and benefits and pros and cons to the different options for refinance, to staying with IBR to public service to any other unorthodox option that may be necessary, and how to do it.
Then I’ll actually help you execute the plan and help you take care of the submission of the programs and kind of monitor and maintain everything and keep the loans in the necessary programs in accordance with what plan we design. Then of course I’m there to answer questions and you’ll always be working with me directly as well. I kind of offer a personal assistance kind of like your financial planner, your accountant would but solely based around your student loans while at the same time taking into consideration your financial situation and needs as well.
Josh Mettle: Well, I know from my clients that I talk to that there is little in their lives that evoke as much stress as student loans, and if you can take that off our clients, they get a little more quality time with their family or can practice a little better medicine, I thank you for that. I think you do a great job.
I appreciate you sharing so generously with us and I love to have this podcast put up. In the future, as you get more updates, Jan, I’d just invite you to reach out to us and have a kind of continued relationship with us. Thanks so much for your time. I look forward to connecting with you again in the near future.
Jan Miller: Absolutely. Thank you. It was my pleasure.