Dr. David Phelps – Freedom Founders

Dr. David Phelps is a dentist by training and now runs Freedom Founders, a professional investment group that teaches small business owners like private practice doctors and dentists the Freedom Formula. Dr. Phelps has a touching reason why he cares so deeply about teaching other professionals how to change their mindset from a lone ranger point of view to an entrepreneurial point of view. He also spoke with us about:

  • How he got off the hamster wheel – twice – and built passive income streams that enable him to do what he wants and to practice dentistry, or not
  • The importance of having a reason why and the tremendous power that gives you
  • How taking small steps building within your practice and leveraging other people’s time and resources and making it work for you
  • How to gain time freedom as well as financial freedom
  • How having a mentor can help you to shift your mindset to benefit you

Josh Mettle: Hello, and welcome to the Physician Financial Success Podcast. My name is Josh Mettle, and this is the podcast dedicated to advising physicians how to avoid financial landmines. Today, we’ll be talking with Dr. David Phelps from Freedom Founders, a professional investment group that teaches small business owners like private practice doctors and dentists the Freedom Formula, which I can’t wait to find out more about. David, good morning, and how are you today?

Dr. David Phelps: Hi, Josh. I’m doing great. Thanks so much for having me on today.

Josh Mettle: It’s a pleasure. Thank you for making time to have us, and I’m excited to get into this. One of my ventures is real estate, as it is yours, and I love it. I’m a fourth-generation Utah landlord and investment property owner, and so, we’re kindred souls in that regard, and I can’t wait to uncap some great ideas today.

Dr. David Phelps: Awesome. Let’s get started. Where would you like to begin?

Josh Mettle: Well, let’s just get started if I could, could you tell us just a little bit about your history and your background because I found it very interesting, right? First as a dentist then, as a real estate investor, and now, as you’ve grown your practice and then I guess moved out of it, so you’re not the fulltime service provider there in the practice, and now, if I may, investment guru, teacher certainly of investments? So, give me that timeline. I’d love to understand that better.

Dr. David Phelps: Sure, well, I hate to use the word guru because I’m a real guy, a real person like everybody else that got into professional practice, and through some things that happened in my life, I came across some great lessons. I learned from great people, and I’ve just, you know kind of come full circle. So, a lot of lessons there, but I got turnaround a little bit. Actually, I was a real estate investor before I was dentist.

Josh Mettle: Okay.

Dr. David Phelps: Yeah, that actually happened. You know I grew up in a family, my father was a physician, and I watched him work very long hard hours, very dedicated to serving the people he did. I also was an orderly in the hospital, which he practiced, and I thought of the long, long hours that those hardworking doctors and healthcare providers did, and I thought, “You know what, I want to be in healthcare, but I don’t think this is what I want to be because I thought more in terms of lifestyle‑”

Josh Mettle: Sure.

Dr. David Phelps: And having more free time. So, that was always a part of me. So, dentistry kind of made sense, but actually I was in college, my last couple of years of college, and I was starting to think in terms of, “This is great. I’m going to go into a profession that by all means and all standards, you know, should provide a good lifestyle.” I mean that’s what it’s all about. That’s what we were told, but I still thought, “You know what, there’s got to be some way I need to learn how to invest my money.” And so, I was an avid reader. I always have been a seeker of information. While I was reading and having to study organic chemistry, which is one of those rites of passage you got to get through medical and dental school‑

Josh Mettle: Absolutely.

Dr. David Phelps: Back then, with the closet light, you know I was reading other books on investment, and I read books on the stock market because that was always something everybody talks about investing in the stock market, and then, I also read ‑ I got hold of some books on real estate. When I compared the two and contrasted, the books on the stock market, I just couldn’t make sense out of how I could really have any control. It was just something where you poured money into something, and you kind of keep your fingers crossed and hope that it will work out. Whereas with real estate, I saw an opportunity to take something that I could actually have some amount of control over. Control always comes with other aspects of time and management, which we can talk about later, but I still liked the idea that I had the ability to take something and control, add value, and have it produce income.

So, I was in my first year of dental school at Baylor in Dallas. This was way back in 1980, so we’re going back like 34 years ago and I’d read these books, and I told my dad. I said, “Look, dad,” – Dad lives in Colorado, that’s where I grew up, I’m in Dallas and I said, “Dad, I’m gonna be here for four years. Now, I can sit here and pay rent for four years, or we‑” I used the word we because I was looking at my first joint venture partner, I had no money. I had no credit, you know I’m waiting tables in school to get through school, right, but I realized there was an opportunity here to get a house. Only knowing what I knew by reading books, my dad only knew about real estate in the houses that we lived in, so he was not entrepreneurial in that respect at all.

I got him to come down to Dallas. We found a good realtor. We went around and looked at different areas, and ended up we found a great house on a street that was a good street, but it was the worst house in the neighborhood. It was an estate sale, older house, great structurally but obviously needed a lot of updating. Long story short, dad provided the credit and the down payment and the financing, and I was the managing co-venture partner. This was a great point because I do a lot of what I call joint venture or co-venture partnering today on small deals. I’m big a big guy on small deals. We bought this property together. I was the manager. I got my dental school buddies to come over and help me paint it. We did some fix up. We did ‑ back then, it was wallpaper, and so we put in some wallpaper, and we put in some carpet and just upgraded it, and I rented it out. I learned a few quick lessons.

My first tenants were SMU college grad students, not a good move but the smart thing I did is I got their parents to co-sign, so when they ended up tearing the place up with their parties, I already had the ability to get the money back to refurbish the property. And then, I got smart and realized that it was about tenant selection.

Josh Mettle: Yeah.

Dr. David Phelps: So, anyway, I went on and graduated from dental school. My dad and I sold the property when I graduated four years later. I should have kept it, but I didn’t realize that was part of the program. So, we took a nice gain out of the property together. We made about $50,000 and split that, and I thought, “Wow. You know what, I’ve worked all these years through dental school and college waiting tables, and I made more money on this real estate property which took me a lot less time. Even though I had some management issues, it took me a lot less time. I made a great profit. There’s something to this.”

Josh Mettle: Yeah.

Dr. David Phelps: While I was in practice and building my practice and gaining my expertise and my clinical skills, I was also on the side, working on the real estate and acquiring more property. And kind of doing it what I consider the hard way, the long way, not the way I would tell doctors and busy professionals to do it today, yet, it was a disciplined program that got me to start building equity and cash flow, and that was the key.

Josh Mettle: I think that’s great. You know, I have a similar story where the very first house that I bought when I was 19 years old, my mom pushed me out and made me do that. I thank her for that today, and I unfortunately sold that home a few years later, but at least, I was able to move some equity tax break that I lived there a couple of years, and I moved $68,000 when I was I think 23 years old into another home, which is I still own today, that second home. That to me at that moment was the aha moment where I went, “Holy cow. There’s a $68,000 check, which is equivalent to $100,000 in wages, right?

Dr. David Phelps: Right.

Josh Mettle: And paying taxes on it. And I was able to create that through ‑ I only paid for that home when I figured the total amount of dollars I put into that home including the mortgage payment for a couple of years and then I had a turnover after I rented it, I only put into that thing about $30,000. It was just a huge aha moment for me. “Holy cow! I did invest $30,000, I lived there for two years and made $68,000.” And so, I love that moment from the first taste of success. Thanks for sharing yours with us.

Dr. David Phelps: Yeah. There’s nothing better than real estate. I’m totally a big believer.

Josh Mettle: I agree. Okay so, let’s start with the elephant in the room. Whenever I have someone on and they talk about teaching their success, I always want to know, you know the proof is in the pudding, so may I be so daring as to ask 34 years into this, what is your cash flow situation from your rental properties? Would you mind sharing how many properties you own and what that cash flow looks like?

Dr. David Phelps: Yeah, well, I’ll say this, Josh, the cash flow is more than sufficient for me to live my life and the lifestyle I have and responsibilities and for my future that I don’t have to work. I don’t practice dentistry anymore. I’m still licensed. I still could practice. I sold my practice four years ago, and I just enjoy what I do today helping other people and being involved in real estate. I’m still involved with my profession because I help so many doctors and dentists, so that’s the cash flow. Actually, I had enough cash flow to be free back in 1998. That was 15 years into my practice, and ‑

Josh Mettle: Wow.

Dr. David Phelps: Unfortunately, I went through a divorce. I’ll say that very openly because I know unfortunately a lot of my professional colleagues deal with that as well, and that’s a big setback. So, I kind of have to start back over again back in ’98, but in six years, I’d rebuilt the cash flow again that I needed because I know how to do it fast track.

Josh Mettle: Right.

Dr. David Phelps: I could leverage what I knew, leverage the contacts, leverage my ability. Today, my portfolio looks like this, Josh. I still have, like you do, I have properties that I bought back in the early ‘80s. Because a good property is well located, sometimes you have to cull your portfolio. As you did, I’ll exchange equities into other properties, but essentially, you keep the equities working and compounding and building for you tax-deferred and create that income. So, I’ve got a lot equities, which is real estate properties, most of it in single family. I do have some – I do have a mobile home park and mobile home park lots. I have a commercial building. I don’t do anything in multifamily, and we can talk about that later. I just love single family, primarily because of the diversification and stability.

I also started investing in performing notes secured by real estate in about the late ‘80s and learned that there was a great opportunity there as well to create income and buy notes secured by real estate, good real estate, at a discount because of the opportunities in the marketplace there. So, I have a pretty good-sized portfolio there. I do a lot of that investing in my self-directed qualified plans. Of course, that’s all tax-deferred and typically tax-free if you’re doing it in a Roth or an HSA type of program.

Josh Mettle: Right.

Dr. David Phelps: And then, we also invest in non-performing notes. That’s a whole other opportunity that’s out there today because there’s so much what we call defaulted paper. And the banks, instead of going into foreclosing property would much rather, in most cases, sell the paper that’s non-performing and let somebody else do the workout, and that’s a lot of fun actually because we actually help people that are in homes that they would like to keep. They just have maybe some bumps and bruises because of the economy. Many times, there’s a workout opportunity. We buy these nonperforming notes at great, great discounts, and again the equity play is huge there.

Josh Mettle: I got it. Well, I love it. I love the story that you were essentially free, and in my mind, I think of the Kiyosaki game, The Rat Race, right?

Dr. David Phelps: Yeah.

Josh Mettle: And free means your passive income from rental properties and notes and any of the other streams that you have now exceeds your outgoing expenses: the cars, any other liabilities that you have, living expenses, vacation, fun money, if your wife likes shoes like mine does. And at that moment where your passive income exceeds your lifestyle expenses and liabilities, you are free. That’s a beautiful thing and the fact that you’ve done it twice is commendable. So, good for you. Okay, let’s move on then to The Freedom Formula because first of all, your website is fascinating, and there’s lots of interesting stuff on there, but can you tell us a little bit about The Freedom Formula and how that all works together?

Dr. David Phelps: Certainly, Josh. Look, I’m not a grass is greener type of guy, and people might think, you know, “We’ll here’s David Phelps and he was a dentist. Maybe he just didn’t like dentistry, so he went into this real estate thing and now he’s trying to get a whole bunch of other doctors and professionals to take off and leave off their practice because real estate is so great.” And I’m not that way at all. I think, as you said freedom is doing what you want to do on your own terms, and I can still practice when I want to, but I can do it on my own terms. The key here is to start with what one has, and that’s the practice. The business is really the greatest asset that we have when we’ve gone through all these years of education to enable us to have a license and a degree to practice and to provide the healthcare. That’s the asset.

Most people get burned out because that asset, that practice is all about them or all about us. I mean that’s the way we’re trained. It’s not our fault we think that way, but we think only we can do this, and we never had the business training, the skills to learn how to leverage and be more efficient. Maybe have other doctors, other providers in that practice doing some of the work, so that we don’t have to do that it all. That’s the key and that’s what I learned after many, many years. I didn’t believe that was true, but I learned that that was possible. So you start with your practice, and you maximize your practice’s profitability through different leveraging of other people’s time and their resources. That’s the key. Once you start to do that and you can actually to pull yourself out from doing everything day to day, and I tell my coaching members, “Just focus on going for maybe half a day or one day. Get one day off per week from what you’re currently doing in your practice, so you can start working on the practice, working on the business instead of always in it.”

Once you taste a little bit of that freedom, then it opens the door, and now you say, “Okay. I’ve one day off per week. Now, how about two?” And get it down to where you’re comfortable. Again, I don’t mean to leave the practice and quit, but what if you could just see the patients that you want to see, do the procedures you want to see, and what if you could do it without having being tied to insurance? What if you can have a concierge program and still have insurance taken by other associates who you’re bringing up through the ladders, so to speak? You know, there’s so many young doctors out there that need help and need mentorship. Bring them in. Grow them. Grow them into your practice, you know do partnerships.

Once you taste that freedom you’ve been working on your practice, then I think you should also be working on creating equity, wealth, and passive cash flow, in other capital assets, and the other capital asset that we’re talking about that I love is through real estate. And so, we learn to do both and still balance and manage time, and time is critical. So, I’m not talking about going out and being a landlord or being a house flipper or renovating properties, but doing it through joint ventures like I suggest, that’s how you can build the equity outside of the practice.

Unfortunately, many of our colleagues are losing value and equity in their practice. Many don’t have any today, particularly in the physician world because of the consolidation and the corporate clinics. Wall Street is buying this up and rolling them up. If that’s the case, then when is your equity going to be? What do you have to sell as far as the business or practice if you don’t own one anymore?

Josh Mettle: I sit in a unique chair because I get to see the financial statements, and the liabilities, and the income and the assets of quite a few physicians and doctors from all walks of life and private practice and W2 and everything else. What I have found is that there are relatively few dentists in proportion to the total number that we advise that have figured out what you just said. They’ve moved themselves slowly out of working, you know, so to speak in the chair, and slowly they’ve moved themselves from practitioner to entrepreneur. When you see one of these clients and you see the incredible cash flow that they are able to create via leverage, owning multiple practices, offices throughout the area that kind of just surround where they live and operate and maybe some all over the country, but I have seen a few of those. And they’ve done it exactly as you have mentioned, and it’s a beautiful thing to see. So, I’m sure that you know some of our listeners might listen to that and think, “Well, that sounds good, but you know, maybe I don’t know anybody who’s actually done it on that level.” I’ve seen them. It’s a beautiful thing, and it can be done. I love the way you described doing it bit by bit. You just don’t decide, “I’ve spent years and years on my profession as a dentist, and now I’m going to leave that and become an entrepreneur overnight.” It’s a baby step, by baby step, by baby step formula.

Dr. David Phelps: It is, Josh. It is an evolutionary process, and I think it’s the barriers that keep most from going in that direction, it’s all about mindset. It’s all about the environment that we were brought up in. people told us who we are when we were going through school, so this is what we do. We go out. It’s all about us. I just think that’s the wrong way to look at it. If you have that attitude mindset, then you’re always going to be trapped by a limitation on what you can really do if you have the thought process that would take you in that next direction. That’s all about surrounding yourself with other people that have that same mindset that help break those barriers. That’s the biggest thing that stops most of us. It did me as well until I was kind of forced, forced to make some changes which maybe that’s what we’ll talk about in a minute, but I will let you go forward.

Josh Mettle: Yeah, no. Great point. I absolutely love that. If you’re surrounding yourself with other professionals that can’t seem to break free of the chains, it’s going to seem like you’ll never get off the hamster wheel. That’s really the next question that I had was you described very descriptively in your website about feeling like you were on the hamster wheel, trading time for money, and it being a never ending cycle. So, you know, you broke through this cycle, and so, I’d love to kind of know what the precipice was to get you off the hamster wheel.

Dr. David Phelps: Sure. Well, even though, Josh, I was building up equity and cash flow outside the practice, there was still – I still had that mindset I was talking about, in the fact that I hadn’t given myself permission to think about my business, my practice in a different model, because no one else was doing it, and I wasn’t around anybody that was entrepreneurial in doing it. I hadn’t sought those people out, I hadn’t found them yet, apparently, because as you said, they’re out there. So, I was on the hamster wheel, building up good equity, but I didn’t know what the end game was. I hadn’t really mapped out a blueprint, and I hadn’t given myself permission to be different about it until one day in 2004, so it was actually 10 years ago this year, my only child, my daughter, who was 12 at the time, had to undergo a liver transplant. She had been vomiting blood two weeks earlier, and this was all subsequent to the fact that she had gone through leukemia and epilepsy, had a lot of chemo, a lot of drugs, and she had end stage liver failure at age 12.

So, here we are and I’m scrambling to find the best place to take her, to get her on the transplant list. Well, the day came ‑ the blessing from God came that, somebody gave up the organs through the loss of life of a child for my daughter. Long story short, she got the liver. She’s alive today. She’s doing well, but here’s the thing: That was the moment in my life when I said, “You know what, enough is enough.” You know, I’m building up this real estate, but I still couldn’t pull myself away to spend time with my family, and here’s the most important thing in my life,  my daughter, my family. And I’ve taken it all for granted because I’m thinking, “Well, if I work hard enough, if I build up enough assets and security, some day, someday I’ll start living my life.”

Well, the problem is, someday never comes for most people. Even though this was a very difficult time, and I wish I could have taken all of this for my daughter, but you know, I think God was revealing some things to me, and saying, you know “David Phelps, you are a good guy. You are a hard worker, but buddy, you’ve got to wake up and start to look at things differently.” Seriously, Josh. So, she’s in Houston, Texas, five hours away from Dallas by car. I’m down there in Houston half of the time this next year because she went through a lot of issues. It wasn’t just going to the transplant and come out, and all was good. So, she’s living down there most of the time with her mom. I’m back and forth. I’m out of my practice 50 percent of the time.

Now, this is the epiphany because I’d always thought that even though I had associates in my practice, they would never rise to the occasion, the patients would never see them, the staff would never support that. Well, now guess what, everybody stepped up to the plate. All this things that I thought could never happen, that I could never could have an entrepreneurial practice where it wasn’t dependent upon me, now it came to fruition. Why? Because I was forced into that position. I was forced to look at life differently and look at my practice because the most important thing to me at that point was my daughter. I had what I call “a reason why” and if you’re listening to this today, I don’t know what your reason why is today, but if you’re just plodding along and still trying to figure out how you’re going to get off that hamster wheel, you’ve got to give yourself “a reason why” then, you’ll start making the changes. Then, you’ll seek the other people that are out there in the world, not just in dentistry or medicine, but are real entrepreneurs that can help pave the way. It’s about the mindset.

So, when I discovered that I could run my practice this way, I never went back to fulltime practice, never. In fact, a year later, I sold it to one of the associates who was a good guy and had good clinical skills, but he was single and unfortunately, he took the practice down the other way. He got mixed up with some bad situations, some bad people, I had to come back in, Josh, and take that practice back over again, kind of like taking over a foreclosed property. When you get it back, it’s never the same as when you gave it.

Josh Mettle: That’s right.

Dr. David Phelps: And it was a mess, but what I found again was, because I had figured out how to put the systems in place, I knew how to market, and I realized that I could do it again, so I did. Without going back in and being the dentist in the practice and building it back up, I brought not one, not two, but I had three different associates working different schedules. I was working on the business. I ran it remotely. I went in maybe half a day a week, but I did not see patients, and basically, we brought the practice back up again, and four years ago, really at the depth of the credit crisis that we recently had in the  recession, I sold the practice to another associate, 100 percent bank financing.

Josh Mettle: Wow.

Dr. David Phelps: And that was the key because the practice was bankable. It wasn’t dependent upon the owner like so many of the practices are. And so, I know if I could do that in a tough situation, in a bad economic climate, anybody can do that, but you’ve got to have the reason why and then surround yourself with people that can help you get through those barriers or the mindset that holds us all back.

Josh Mettle: There is so much wisdom in this. I’m scrambling notes here, but I love a couple of things you said, and you said permission. I really think that’s key. Maybe with permission is faith that you can run it in a different way and that those around you can step up and take this on, and you can move to the entrepreneur from the practitioner. I think that’s beautiful, and then, you tapped on why. That’s something that I think is so important. You have to have a why. If we’re going to move any mountain, if we’re going to do anything truly remarkable, you’ve got to have a big why, and I applaud you and I’m glad your daughter is doing well. That was a beautiful story, and I think a lot of people will learn from that.

So, let’s move on to the principle of sustainable income, and I’m assuming that has to do with the rental properties, but help me understand that principle.

Dr. David Phelps: Yeah, well, sustainable income, Josh, is by investing you know, your time, your ability, or even capital into a capital asset, and a capital asset can be a business, and I’m talking about a real business, that’s not dependent upon the owner or it can be real estate. It can be either one or it could be both, but by creating that capital asset, acquiring it, building it up, doing whatever you do to start it, then it starts producing regular, sustainable income without you, the owner or the manager of that asset, having to do the work every day, and that’s what real estate does. The problem with the professions or really from that standpoint, most small businesses, the owner of the small business or the practice, it’s all about him, as I said earlier. So, we have to be there every day to produce services or goods or both, and it’s all transaction based. So, you go, you do a service, you treat a patient, you get paid. What are you going to do to receive the next income? You got to go back and do the service or the product to produce the goods or services again.

Josh Mettle: Right.

Dr. David Phelps: With a capital asset that’s built and producing income like a real business and real estate will do, now, you’ve set up one time and it produces income on a sustainable basis without you having to go back and redo the labor-producing transaction again.

Josh Mettle: Then, you just go out and get another piece of capital and create more sustainable income and you repeat the cycle.

Dr. David Phelps: That’s exactly it.

Josh Mettle: I love it. Okay, I saw the other piece of what it is that you do. It sounds like there’s a lot of coaching here to bring people to a place where they can pull themselves out of being the practitioner. They can transition to a point of being an entrepreneur, however that may look for them. And then, the next place is how do we get these capital assets to spin off sustainable income? I love the transition, from the genesis to fruition. It seems like you’ve got this mapped out. Let’s talk about the next step, which would be, how do we find investment opportunities, and part of that I understand is what you do with your group member.

Dr. David Phelps: Just going out and going to your local realtor or on the MLS, Multiple Listing Service, to find deals is you’re going to buy it retail. The idea here is not to buy it retail. You want to buy at wholesale, and the best way to do that is through other people who have a connection to the deal, and even you can joint venture. You don’t need as a busy doctor to go out and buy the house and then manage the contractor and then put the tenant in, and then manage the tenant. Why not joint venture on what I call a one off deal, and a joint venture is not a partnership, but you can either hold title to the property, so you have control there, or you can have a first mortgage, first deed of trust lending position like a bank does‑

Josh Mettle: Right.

Dr. David Phelps: And either way, you can have the cash flow and the equity. Sure, you can say, “Well, if I control the whole thing, David, if I did it all, wouldn’t I get a greater return?” Yeah, on paper, but where’s your time best used. That’s why I have to keep pulling people back and say, “Where is your time best used? If you’re leaving your practice, if you are transitioning out, then you’ve got free time, then great. I’ll show you how to go, you know, build up your own program and have your own management team. But if you’re in your practice and that’s where you need to be, by golly, stay there and just joint venture and get good returns and good equity positions that are indexed to inflation and just do this over time. You’re going to have plenty when you need to exit or when you’re ready for that real freedom exit strategy that I talk about.

Josh Mettle: Yeah, I think there’s different ways to do it, and I think you’ve refined that as you’ve managed it one way and you found even a better way in the end. For me, I found that my business is the place that turns the profit, and then, the place to park that profit is then in real estate. So, I’ve turned my mother and my wife into my business partners ‑ they might say slaves, but I say business partners ‑ and we do it as a family. We really enjoy it, but I also find that as I am talking to folks and you know because people come to me and they say, “We want to get best involved in investing in real estate. How do you do it? How do we do it when we’re already working 40 hours or 50 hours a week, and we have two or three kids?” And that can be a real limiting factor: time and having the resources of somebody to be able to manage that.

So, it sounds like you’ve found a way to get rid of that obstacle, which is probably the number one obstacle for getting involved in real estate.

Dr. David Phelps: It is. There is no question about it, and you brought up a great point, Josh, and that is involving family members. I think real estate is a great place, a great training ground for children and kids as they come into that business. If you have a spouse or it could be just a friend in the community, a young person, that’s what I do today. I help young people. We have some of our coaching members, the doctors that come and they bring their 20 year old, you know, young children because they want to get them to be like, what I call, boots on the ground, so that they can have someone out there in their community. That’s another way to do it, just employ the time and talent of other people to leverage, again what you have and that’s the capital, the profit from your business to put into real estate, park it there, as you said. There are different ways to do it, and it’s just putting those systems together. It’s the same in any business. You just got to learn how to employ the people, build a strategic team, and you’re off to the races.

Josh Mettle: I feel like I could talk to you for two hours.

Dr. David Phelps: I know we could, I know we could.

Josh Mettle: We are coming to the end, and I have a feeling that what we’ve done is scratch the surface and there’s going to be a lot of questions. So, maybe let’s end with this. I appreciate what you’ve given us. You’ve given us a different form of thinking and really, I love the concept of pulling yourself out and transitioning to an entrepreneur and then moving into capital assets, and then taking advantage of the principles of sustained income. It’s so powerful. How can listeners get a hold of you, ask questions, and really find out more about all of the information and data that you offer?

Dr. David Phelps: Sure, Josh. I’ll go ahead and give my personal email because I know you have a sophisticated audience and really the kind of people I like to connect with. So, that email address is david@freedomfounders – that’s Freedom Founders with an S – dot com, david@freedomfounders.com, and my website is www.freedomfounders.com.

Josh Mettle: David, thank you. I appreciate your time. It was absolutely an enjoyable 30 minutes with you, and I hope to connect with you in the very near future.

Dr. David Phelps: Josh, I know we will. Thank you again for your time and the opportunity today.